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Author Topic: Prayers for Moonshine  (Read 540 times)

abbypeaches

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Re: Prayers for Moonshine
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2019, 07:38:04 am »

Feed her rehydrated timothy pellets and rehydrated beet pulp. And alfalfa pellets rehydrated too.
Also go to ecirhorse.org for additional help.
Hope she is doing okay.
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Marilyn and
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fargos handmaiden

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Re: Prayers for Moonshine
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2019, 04:40:16 am »

Sorry, Miss Tux. Just saw your asking for.update.

.moonshine presently doing much better. A little rib instead of all blubber. Crest way way down. Too much stall confinement tho. We spent $1900 to have run in built in old buck pasture, about or less than 1 acre. We .mowed as best we could, still spots we can't reach, and gave her first day of unsupervised freedom in grazing muzzle while we ran errands. Came back and brat had wiggled out of nose piece and was pigging out. So now whole new set of problems...how to keep the brat in her muzzle! Suggestions appreciated. We do put the halter over it. But she still wiggles out of nose piece while rest of muzzle stays on.
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fargos handmaiden

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Re: Prayers for Moonshine
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2019, 04:50:23 am »

Continued...

We bought two muzzles. Regular for her, cob for Speedy as I feared with his weight gain this year, he was headed same way. The regular she consistently wiggled out of so put the cob on her and seemed a good.fit. Never wiggled out of it with halter on top until today. Sure need some help on this one.

Surprised at suggestion of alfalfa and beets pulp since both have high sugar content. We are having to make 36 mile trip currently to buy very expensive Purina (something) Plus which is supposed to be sugar free.

Although I ordered.the cannabis stuff for.her, I am now afraid to give it to her as I read somewhere it can cause a horse to gain weight.
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misstux

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Re: Prayers for Moonshine
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2019, 08:16:28 am »

You can feed beet pulp!  Rinse it well. Soak it. Rinse it well again. I used to give it to my Morgan Dusty who was very IR. Strider has not gained weight on the medical cannabis. If anything he has lost some weight since the grass has dried up.
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ClaudiaIN

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Re: Prayers for Moonshine
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2019, 09:48:44 am »

I've honestly never heard of horses gaining weight on CBD
And if it does,  the benefits would outweigh the negatives
« Last Edit: July 16, 2019, 11:04:43 am by ClaudiaIN »
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NoBite

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Re: Prayers for Moonshine
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2019, 11:00:40 am »

Heiro FAQ


We've used Heiro successfully with two horses. Can't imagine why you wouldn't investigate it at least.
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fargos handmaiden

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Re: Prayers for Moonshine
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2019, 01:06:51 pm »

Thought I started we were.feeding Heiro. She was still way overweight a d crested. However she only foundered.when we messed.up and.stopped.feeding it for.a few days. I AM feeding it inspite of vet saying not to. OK. I may reconsider the cannibis.
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fargos handmaiden

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Re: Prayers for Moonshine
« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2019, 01:25:09 pm »

Well, just researched the cannibis.again. Both chronofthehorse.com and (I forget now) said it was.good.for.horses, mainly for weight gain and muscle.building. Think I will pass on that.
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ClaudiaIN

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Re: Prayers for Moonshine
« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2019, 05:35:58 pm »

Look up cbd,,not cannabis.  Not the same thing
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PAWalker

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Re: Prayers for Moonshine
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2019, 04:26:56 am »

Some folks either don't know Joker's IR story or don't remember.

In 2012, his insulin numbers were literally three times higher than "high/normal".  Cornell U. Called the vet to ask for a 2nd vile of blood as they thought they had mis-read.  They hadn't.   Then they called the vet to ask if the horse was still alive.

No surprise, Joker had foundered serious on the RF and pointing to China on the LF.

At that time, I had looked at HEIRO but they were so proud of themselves they wouldn't list ingredients.  I don't buy anything that doesn't list ingredients, or that doesn't have a contact phone for that matter.  I think they now list ingredients but, even if it might help some horses, I still won't recommend their product to anyone.

My lameness vet gave me the choice of putting Joker on Thyro-L or the herbal product from Dr. Xie called Hot Hoof I.  I chose the herbal product.

Joker wore a muzzle for turnout, which his big head couldn't flip the basket off his nose, so I put the fly mask over it to keep him from rubbing it off.

Joker still has limited grazing, minus the muzzle.  I also STRIPPED his feed pan stuff back to nothing but two measuring cups of Timothy pellets daily, as a carrier for the soy-free, no added iron, condensed vit/min supplement.  The vit/min supplement is 3oz daily so calories are almost nil.

Joker lost ~150#.  The vet taped him six weeks ago.  He sighs ~1,125#.  She was good with that for,his height and body structure but doesn't want him to gain any.

His blood results have consistently come back in the "high/normal" range since 2015.  He has not needed a muzzle for turnout since 2015 but his turnout time is not as long as it was before IR.  he has his own pasture, separate from my other horse, but that's a separate issue not related to the IR.

bottom line, IMHO and what has worked for me:. Get the horse off anything in a bag to cut calories & NSC.  Feed a condensed, soy-free, no added iron vit/min supplement, to where only a few ounces is required.

A critical part of the formula is having the hay tested.  Thankfully I can buy from two great local sources who only grow horse hay and do sell in small squares (no round bales for IR horses).  The hay has consistently tested in the 8% range for NSC value.  I have read where some folks have ended up with hay that tests in 25% range, which is not healthy for any horse. I'm guessing that's the because grower either doesn't know the time of day to cut or doesn't care.

I pay top dollar for low NSC, weed-free hay but there is minimal waste, it allows Joker to spend more time on pasture like a normal horse, and the day my years's worth of hay comes in the barn, I start saving for the next year.

As you already know, a seriously IR horse is not cheap to manage and never will be.  My other metabolic horse sailed thru with never having had a laminitic issue and all he needed was to have his diet managed.  Joker, however, is the polar opposite to manage both in money and diet.

While there is a solid guideline for managing these horses, there is no strictly adhering to THIS plan or THAT plan because of that word "metabolic" --- they are all different just like we are:)

I don't know a thing about the success or failure of canno is on horses.  I do know that neither the topical nor the oral CBD products do not do one single thing for any of my arthritis issues.  I have a lot more success with Zim's Max Freeze and Salon Pas cream that contains 4% lidocaine:).

My equine chiro is a hollistic vet and has studied Chines medicine most of her life -- if I thought it might help the horse, I would discuss with her first.   I won't because I don't think it will, in Joker's case:)
« Last Edit: July 17, 2019, 04:34:00 am by PAWalker »
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fargos handmaiden

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Re: Prayers for Moonshine
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2019, 05:36:26 am »

Thanks, PAWalker. Info much appreciated. Our vet won't do the blood tests either. 
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wakemom

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Re: Prayers for Moonshine
« Reply #26 on: July 31, 2019, 02:31:52 pm »

Oui so your plight caught my eye...cuz I have a now IR rocky. I've been on GS for a long time but rarely post any more. No time. My mare Gabby was the one that nearly died from a vaccine reaction in 2012. I also had the rescue horse Chloe with the battery acid burn back around that time. Anyhow, back to IR. In the winter of 2018 Gabby got an abscess (never had hoof problems ever) and was lethargic that spring. She also got a cresty neck but was thin every where else. I knew all this was not normal for my horse. My vet did not originally want to test her for metabolic issues but agreed because I insisted. She came back with insulin levels in the 124 range and a thyroid at .53. He was shocked. So she was put on ThyroL at 3/4 scoop. She originally lost weight she didn't need to, 100 or so pounds and looked horrible. Adjust the meds to 1/2 scoop and at least she stopped losing. Yes! I have the only not fat IR horse in my vet's practice.  :o

Fast forward to this year and her blood work. She is currently considered within "normal" range and actually lower than my Mom's chubby quarter horse. Her thyroid is working well as a result and we are weaning her off the meds. So, what did I do to get here...
Teff grass hay, and alfalfa hay. Ooooo the dreaded A word in hay. Reallllly. My vet told me since I ride her she needs the protein and that our alfalfa is typically lower nsc than many grass hays in our area. (typically under 10) and a simple sugar. So I kept her on 18 pound hay 1/3 of it alfalfa. She is on Arizona Copper Complete which has the vit/mineral profile to work with our hay that is grown primarily in the desert areas of California and AZ. It was the least expensive way to get in the recommended amounts per ECIR group. She is also on CBD pellets (because a holistic vet in my area had seen the research that it "can" help and won't hurt) an ulcer supplement called RiteTrac because she's prone from that 2012 illness, iodized salt and a natural supplement to help with her gums because IR horses are prone to those issues too. All the supps are put into 1# timothy pellets and wet with water. So at the blood work draw time she was getting 19# of feed.

Now I have increased her feed amount to 20# and 1# pellets because my vet would like to see her weigh 1000#. She is thin, always has been but since all of this she's struggled to keep weight on...exactly opposite of your average IR. I allow no treats, no apples, carrots, etc. Her treat is salted dry roasted peanuts in the shell. That was the hardest for my friend where she lives to get, don't feed carrots and she can only have a few peanuts. :) No grazing on weeds or compromised grass (dead or dying grass is often high in sugar) and no spring grass which was tough cuz our trails were full of it this past winter/spring. I did buy a container of Heiro but never finished it, opting for the AZCC.

While you can't cure IR you can manage it. I know that things can go the other way for us, forcing me to make adjustments. For now this has worked. The proof is in the blood work. I did a lot of research, talked to many other owners and vets.
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Cheryl~Gabby's Mom

fargos handmaiden

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Re: Prayers for Moonshine
« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2019, 03:57:07 am »

Thanks, Cheryl. These IR horses are a nightmare.
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wakemom

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Re: Prayers for Moonshine
« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2019, 01:23:02 pm »

I agree they are a challenge. I'm not sure which is worse having an IR horse or a cushings horse like my friend has. She has two rockies and both tested pre cushings and are on meds. The gelding is not faring well. Having founder issues and probably won't make it to his 18th birthday. He's beautiful and closely related to Gabby so, I take notice. I guess from what Kysa mentioned when she saw Gabby's blood work is that if she's gonna be IR her type, being what her blood says, is easier to manage than if she was high in everything. It was only really her insulin. My struggle is honestly keeping weight on her, without it going to her neck. That seems to be the only place she gains when she does.  :-\
Good luck with Moonshine, it's so hard to deal with things we can't cure.
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Cheryl~Gabby's Mom
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