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Author Topic: Metabolic Disorder Issues and Test Results  (Read 1362 times)

abbypeaches

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Re: Metabolic Disorder Issues and Test Results
« Reply #30 on: September 10, 2014, 12:43:14 pm »

Many vets weren't exposed to this condition in vet school so they have little idea on how to treat it. Dr. Kellon's website has only been in existence since the 1990s so unless the owner directs the vet to it, they have no info to guide them.
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Marilyn and
 Bud, 30 yo reg. MFT gelding, Montana's Silver Mist(Misty) 20 yo MFT & Midnight Rendezvous (Kate) 16 mo mare.

loneelk

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Re: Metabolic Disorder Issues and Test Results
« Reply #31 on: September 10, 2014, 12:51:29 pm »

I've heard of folks using Pergolide w/o the testing, if the horse is obviously symptomatic, because the testing is expensive and apparently may not change much except to give testing evidence of the disease.  I don't actually know, but I'm guessing that you should prob'ly look for an equine vet rather than a general vet.  We've found a vet who specializes in horses, and she is a world of different from the GP we used before.
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Khadija

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Re: Metabolic Disorder Issues and Test Results
« Reply #32 on: September 10, 2014, 01:18:43 pm »

There is an equine specialist over the line in Arkansas that we have consulted in the past. It is 40 miles, but perhaps we would only have to take Rudy down there once.

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OldnOrnery

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Re: Metabolic Disorder Issues and Test Results
« Reply #33 on: September 10, 2014, 03:12:03 pm »

Sorry the vet couldn't help. Your experience isn't uncommon.

Lots of people don't treat their PPID horses, don't know they have PPID, and if they did, wouldn't or couldn't afford to treat them anyway. The treatment protocols were established for very dedicated and attached horse owner, often for retired endurance horses with which the owners had tight and long-term relationship.
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PAWalker

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Re: Metabolic Disorder Issues and Test Results
« Reply #34 on: September 10, 2014, 04:23:13 pm »

Well, that was interesting. The vet pulled the blood for the Coggin's. I began to ask about the tests for Cushing's.  It became obvious that he knows nothing about the condition.  He mentioned doing the Dex suppression test. Then, when I didn't want that, he suggested starting my horse on Pergolide without the test since he obviously has PPID, but he wasn't sure of the dose, was going to order the liquid form. When I said I didn't want that he suggested I consult with an equine practitioner rather then someone in general mostly small animal or cattle practice!  He hasn't treated a horse for it in 15 years!  He mentioned a vet and gave us the phone number.  I suspect he is used to folks not treating the condition. :(

I agree he is not used to folks treating their Cushings horses.  Duke's diagnosis of "being cushionoid but he doesn't have cushings", was made by the all animal vet in my county, back in 2007; I have since switched to an equine vet who has all the modern portable x-ray & ultrasound machines.  He breeds Limousin (sp?) cattle and specializes in cows but he still knew what he was looking at.

He didn't, however, know anything at all about diet.  Just said to "watch what this horse eats".  I had no clue in what context he meant that and thus started the internet researching, days and days of tears thinking I was going to lose this horse and it would be my fault for not knowing what "what his diet meant"   :-\

Many folks on this forum know I literally live in "The Cradle of Walking Horse Country" -- 12 miles from the Celebration Grounds.  It would lead one to believe that all horses, especially Walking Horses, are kept on pedestals and held in the highest regard.  Nothing could be further from the truth and, apparently, the further into the Deep Rural South one gets the more that old mind set of "it's just a piece of livestock" prevails.

Khadija, call the vet in Arkansas and explain your situation.  Ask him what he suggests in terms of progressing with a formal diagnosis.  I would not give my horse Prascend (the new compounded drug that replaces the old Pergolide) as test results are important to know the dosage strength and how often.  Both drugs are by prescription only.

That vet may even be able to recommend somebody closer that you are totally unaware of.

We live "out" which is not the same as "remote", although some people would argue that :P

People have make jokes that we should tie radios to trees that are playing Deliverance music, all the way up the hill.  While we look remote, we are not.  Folks that really do live in remote areas suffer for good animal care and even human health care because the pay is low and doctors or vets don't want to start their practices in places like that :( :(
Judy
« Last Edit: September 10, 2014, 04:28:00 pm by PAWalker »
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Khadija

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Re: Metabolic Disorder Issues and Test Results
« Reply #35 on: October 27, 2014, 05:08:33 pm »

Well, I took my boy to the equine vet in Arkansas to be tested for Cushing's about three weeks ago. The vet was going on a three-week vacation, so I didn't expect to find out anything till about the first of November.  I was also disappointed, as this vet was obviously not knowledgeable about Cushing's, and he gave the Dex Suppression test!  Another vet in the practice just called. She said Rudy got 4.4 both before and on the second test.  Surprise, surprise.  The first vet told me he would be prescribing powdered Pergolide that I would measure out. He said you give a miligram a day, was not aware of a need to increase the dose over time! The second vet said she was not familiar with graduated dosage, but would study up on it!  I asked her to send me the test results and a prescription.  :-\
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Ozhorse

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Re: Metabolic Disorder Issues and Test Results
« Reply #36 on: October 27, 2014, 09:48:12 pm »


Wow.. a admire you guys dealing with these complicated metabolic issues in difficult circumstances.  It shows a great dedication to your horses and to the knowledge you need to deal with their problems.  It also shows great competence on your part dealing with the complications of various test laboratories and treatment protocols and sources for cost effective medications. 

They are vey lucky animals.

I bet there are many people who do not get similar issues dealt with as well, more is the pity for them.
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PAWalker

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Re: Metabolic Disorder Issues and Test Results
« Reply #37 on: October 28, 2014, 07:49:57 am »

Well, I took my boy to the equine vet in Arkansas to be tested for Cushing's about three weeks ago. The vet was going on a three-week vacation, so I didn't expect to find out anything till about the first of November.  I was also disappointed, as this vet was obviously not knowledgeable about Cushing's, and he gave the Dex Suppression test!  Another vet in the practice just called. She said Rudy got 4.4 both before and on the second test.  Surprise, surprise.  The first vet told me he would be prescribing powdered Pergolide that I would measure out. He said you give a miligram a day, was not aware of a need to increase the dose over time! The second vet said she was not familiar with graduated dosage, but would study up on it!  I asked her to send me the test results and a prescription.  :-\

Judy, I am sorry you're going to have to deal with cushings :(

Did the vet actually use the word "pergolide" or did she say "Prascend"? 

I'm not sure that Pergolide, as we are all familiar with it, is still on the market as it never was FDA approved.

Prascend is FDA approved and is now the new drug of choice.  http://www.bi-vetmedica.com/main/equine/prascend.htmlÂOz, every horse reacts different to these metabolic issues.  It can make a person crazy and it does a good job of emptying the checkbook :'(  Both of my horses are on limited pasture time and eat the same grain-free ration balancer and grass hay but it ends there.

One has foundered, is on a prescription to control his insulin and wears a grazing muzzle.

The other one has never had an ouchy hoof, get over-the-counter Remission, and does not need a grazing muzzle.  However, he has poor circulation, hind gut ulcers and possibly lipomas.  He is on Succeed for the colonic ulcers which costs almost as much as the prescription for the other horse.

Research never ends for owners of horses like these, which is why it helps a lot to share every little piece of information.  Sometimes it helps THIS person, sometimes THAT person, sometimes nobody at the moment but, we have to keep sharing because it may save a beloved horse's life :)
Judy
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Bejammie

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Re: Metabolic Disorder Issues and Test Results
« Reply #38 on: October 28, 2014, 07:59:54 am »

Didn't start at the  beginning so someone may have already mentioned, but I really like Heiro as a supplement to help with the IR/cushings issues.  Birch is IR and we started him on it a year ago and are very pleased with the results.  Birch is on a dry lot with grass hay and gets timothy pellets instead of grain, plus the heiro.  That helps keep his IR in check. 


Good luck, it sure is hard to find knowledgeable vets.  My vet didn't know anything, but I printed out info from the Heiro website and asked for those specific tests, etc, and I was able to make my own informed diagnosis with the test results.  We aren't even in a remote location- just no horse vets that aren't "old school" around here, so I trust myself more than the vets most of the time. ;)
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Allison


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Khadija

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Re: Metabolic Disorder Issues and Test Results
« Reply #39 on: October 28, 2014, 08:45:34 am »

Lady called from Vet's office.  She is sending a 60 day supply of the Pergolide powder, fed at 1mg as day. This costs $116.00.  She is also sending a copy of the Dex Suppression test results. I might could use them to consult another vet--if I could find one that knew anything!! :(
« Last Edit: October 28, 2014, 08:47:08 am by Khadija »
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misstux

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Re: Metabolic Disorder Issues and Test Results
« Reply #40 on: October 29, 2014, 08:26:22 am »

Lady called from Vet's office.  She is sending a 60 day supply of the Pergolide powder, fed at 1mg as day. This costs $116.00.  She is also sending a copy of the Dex Suppression test results. I might could use them to consult another vet--if I could find one that knew anything!! :(

Join the Yahoo Cushings and Insulin Resistance forum.  Lots of knowlegable people, great current information, plus the list is co-owned by Eleanor Kellon VMD who is on from time to time and will answer questions if she has the time.
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Khadija

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Re: Metabolic Disorder Issues and Test Results
« Reply #41 on: October 29, 2014, 01:43:19 pm »

I am a member of the Cushings and IR Yahoo group.  I have been getting advice there as well.  What I chiefly need is a vet who is  up on the latest protocols and will give me an Rx that I can fill economically.  I guess I need to try to educate them as I educate myself.

Thanks,

Judy
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PAWalker

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Re: Metabolic Disorder Issues and Test Results
« Reply #42 on: October 29, 2014, 03:26:56 pm »

Do an on-line search for pharmacies that will fill the prescription from your vet.

Just have to be sure the source you pick is legitimate :)

The Yahoo cushings group should be able to help with that.
Judy
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abbypeaches

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Re: Metabolic Disorder Issues and Test Results
« Reply #44 on: October 29, 2014, 07:40:58 pm »

My vet orders my Pergolide Mesylate from Wedgewood Pharmacy(405 Heron Dr., Swedesboro, NJ 08085). I have her draw blood for ACTH level each May. I adjust the dose of Pergolide accordingly.
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Marilyn and
 Bud, 30 yo reg. MFT gelding, Montana's Silver Mist(Misty) 20 yo MFT & Midnight Rendezvous (Kate) 16 mo mare.
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