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Author Topic: Metabolic Disorder Issues and Test Results  (Read 1361 times)

kckc

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Re: Metabolic Disorder Issues and Test Results
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2014, 07:57:26 am »

that was easily read and good information.  glad to hear your horse is doing well.  Hope you have good luck with your mini Mona
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Winona

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Re: Metabolic Disorder Issues and Test Results
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2014, 07:09:06 pm »

Mona....just thought of another reason to try pergolide. My horse had lots of medical problems that cost a ton of $. None life threatening, but the cost of vet visits and medications took its toll. Some type of infection (never figured it out), eye inflammation, founder, respiratory issues. When he founder we finally checked for Cushings. Unfortunately , it was a couple months later that I finally got the results and his ACTH was very high. I fired the vet for several reasons.....one because she lied about the test results initially.

Anyway, had I known he had Cushings(never showed fat pockets, etc) I think I would have saved a couple grand. He was extremely healthy for many years thereafter.  He did have a crest, but always had and was a stallion until age 17.

Good luck.
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Jodi, Northern NY, Paso Fino/Icelandic/Mini

Mona

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Re: Metabolic Disorder Issues and Test Results
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2014, 08:30:07 pm »

Thanks everyone for the tips and info!!  :)
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Morson, Ontario.  Canada

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"Cheyenne"
- Black Pinto SSH Mare
"Ruby" - Bay Pinto KMH Mare

Khadija

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Re: Metabolic Disorder Issues and Test Results
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2014, 11:39:43 am »

My faithful MFT Rudy has been growing a four-inch winter coat, shedding out to a one-inch, then partially shedding to a normal coat. This has happened for the past two years. He shows no sign of being insulin resistant or of laminitis, but he Is very greedy.

Does the Cushing's blood panel usually cost $300? He goes to the vet for Coggins Wednesday. I guess I will ask the vet what it would cost.
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Mona

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Re: Metabolic Disorder Issues and Test Results
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2014, 11:53:56 am »

Judy, I don't think there is a "usual" price.  So much depends on the vet, the location, farm call lab used and the tests run.  The test itself not that much, but I live so far away from everything (80 miles from nearest vet) and with the testing, lab fees, courrier fees etc. it all adds up so fast.  It actually ended up costing me over $400 to have the vet come to take blood and do the testing on my little mare.   :(
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Morson, Ontario.  Canada

Home to:
"Cheyenne"
- Black Pinto SSH Mare
"Ruby" - Bay Pinto KMH Mare

Khadija

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Re: Metabolic Disorder Issues and Test Results
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2014, 12:26:59 pm »

We are taking the horses to the vet anyway, so I guess the cost will mainly be lab fee, and the cost to draw the extra blood.

Can anyone give me an idea of a price range for treating a 1000 pound horse with Pergolide?  Is the dose based on the blood panel?  How do they know how much to give?
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OldnOrnery

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Re: Metabolic Disorder Issues and Test Results
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2014, 12:54:05 pm »

Judy, you have one of the national experts on equine metabolic issues at Missu, Dr. Johnson. http://www.cvm.missouri.edu/news/JohnsonP2014.html

Find out if your vet can draw blood and have it sent to the Veterinary Medical Diagnostic Lab. http://vmdl.missouri.edu/VMDLSchedOfFees.pdf The tests you want are:
**ACTH (endogenous ACTH)
**Insulin (non-fasting, non-glucose challenged, just after the horse has eaten it's morning hay, isn't hungry, no grain). Elevated insulin relative to glucose is the marker for insulin resistance.
**Glucose (horses aren't like people and rarely have high glucose. It's a test of your horse's hay, more than anything else).

You don't need thyroid. You don't need cortisol. Both are hormones that are tweaked by the pituitary disorder that comprises Cushings/PPID. Control the Cushings, control the cortisol and thyroid. You can spend hours reading and understanding the informational website, http://ecirhorse.org

Commercial testing services aren't as good as one of the major agricultural university labs because commercial labs like IDEXX, BET's normal ranges aren't backed by controlled studies. I wouldn't spend my hard-earned money on their lab results. Some do send the blood on to a major vet university, but you're dependent on their handling of the blood. Not a good thing.

I personally have all metabolic blood samples delivered to Cornell by FedEx. It costs me what it cost Mona, roughly. I get 4 tests: eACTH, insulin, glucose, leptin 

Treatment of PPID is with pergolide. The dose depends on the horse and its response to pergolide. The starting dose is 0.5 mg pergolide, then wait 3 weeks to see if symptoms have subsided. The horse may never shed out again, so that isn't one of the symptoms to monitor. Some horses respond to 1 mg. Some horses need 7 mg! Dr Kellon believes that early detection of PPID and control of ACTH with pergolide leads to better control and maintenance of the horse over the long run. I have no experience on that account because my PPID mare had advanced PPID when she came to me at age 20 (not age 17, as I was told and body clipped - - who knew she had the Yak coat waiting underneath.) She was diagnosed 6 months later when she had a bout of fall laminitis (foot sore for 3 weeks in one hoof).
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Khadija

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Re: Metabolic Disorder Issues and Test Results
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2014, 01:23:42 pm »

Thank you Oldn for this timely and precise information! It looks like I should get the blood drawn and invest in a decent set of clippers for the Yak coat.  Rudy is only 15. I hope he had another tern years to be riddern! :)
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abbypeaches

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Re: Metabolic Disorder Issues and Test Results
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2014, 01:27:26 pm »

I have my vet order pergolide mesylate thru wedgewood pharmacy in NJ. Mine needs 1.5 mg/day. Price is $165 for 100 capsules. That's the most reasonable price I've found for capsule form for that medication.
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Marilyn and
 Bud, 30 yo reg. MFT gelding, Montana's Silver Mist(Misty) 20 yo MFT & Midnight Rendezvous (Kate) 16 mo mare.

Khadija

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Re: Metabolic Disorder Issues and Test Results
« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2014, 01:35:15 pm »

Abby,

How many milligrams of pergolode are in each capsule?
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OldnOrnery

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Re: Metabolic Disorder Issues and Test Results
« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2014, 04:46:56 pm »

I know someone who gets 6 mg/capsule for $54 delivered monthly from Pet Health Pharmacy in Arizona. It comes priority mail.

Pergolide is sensitive to moisture and temperature and loses effectiveness. It needs to be kept refrigerated in the fridge door (which is somewhat warmer) and  shouldn't freeze or get higher than 77 degrees. The recommendation is to have it delivered every 30 days so you're always dosing with fresh pergolide.
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abbypeaches

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Re: Metabolic Disorder Issues and Test Results
« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2014, 05:00:58 pm »

1.5 mg/capsule
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Marilyn and
 Bud, 30 yo reg. MFT gelding, Montana's Silver Mist(Misty) 20 yo MFT & Midnight Rendezvous (Kate) 16 mo mare.

Mona

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Re: Metabolic Disorder Issues and Test Results
« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2014, 05:04:32 pm »

Judy, I believe you can get them compounded to carry the dosage you are needing.
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Morson, Ontario.  Canada

Home to:
"Cheyenne"
- Black Pinto SSH Mare
"Ruby" - Bay Pinto KMH Mare

abbypeaches

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Re: Metabolic Disorder Issues and Test Results
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2014, 07:32:25 pm »

Is the Pet Health product liquid?
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Marilyn and
 Bud, 30 yo reg. MFT gelding, Montana's Silver Mist(Misty) 20 yo MFT & Midnight Rendezvous (Kate) 16 mo mare.

Khadija

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Re: Metabolic Disorder Issues and Test Results
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2014, 11:45:29 am »

Well, that was interesting. The vet pulled the blood for the Coggin's. I began to ask about the tests for Cushing's.  It became obvious that he knows nothing about the condition.  He mentioned doing the Dex suppression test. Then, when I didn't want that, he suggested starting my horse on Pergolide without the test since he obviously has PPID, but he wasn't sure of the dose, was going to order the liquid form. When I said I didn't want that he suggested I consult with an equine practitioner rather then someone in general mostly small animal or cattle practice!  He hasn't treated a horse for it in 15 years!  He mentioned a vet and gave us the phone number.  I suspect he is used to folks not treating the condition. :(
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